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Unnamed Road, Pirates Well Settlement, The Bahamas
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Welcome to the Authentic Pirate Living History Group, a small corner of Facebook for those who would like to "get it right" to hide from Hollywood and pop-culture "sexy" pirate girls. This is a place for discussion of the history and material culture of real, historical, pirates of the "Golden Age" (however you choose to define it, but for now let's say European/American pirates, 1690-1725 ish) and their portrayal at living history and educational events. Feel free to invite other like minded friends.

Anyone posting pictures of themselves in Jack Sparrow outfits or typing in "pyratese" will be mercilessly mocked and jeered. Please leave your bucket boots at the door.

If you have a specific question, it may already have been asked, and it's recommended that you have a quick browse through this document to see links to previous discussions. There is no harm, however in asking a question again, even if it's been answered before, because research here is ever ongoing, and it's likely that something new could be added.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/authentic-pirate-living-history/informative-discussions-of-aplh/567098313387200

Sunday January 21st, 2018 - 11:17 am

Better??? ... See MoreSee Less

Better???

Sunday January 21st, 2018 - 10:43 am

So Folks, this is a not so nice story from me about our friend Max Wolf!

On the 13th of July 2017 I bought a ships axe from Max Wolf by Pay Pal for 75$. Max needed quite a while for figuring out what the shipping costs to Germany will be so I was waiting.

On 13th of September 2017 I was asking when my
axe will arrive an his anser was that the axe was sent back to him because a form, don't know what type of form, was not filled and he'll will send it again.

On the 16th of October 2017 I was asking him again what is going on and when will my axe arrive. His answer was that he'll be able to send the axe again on the 22nd of October 2017.

Then on 28th of October 2017 he came up with the idea to buy me an axe from an EU supplier because the shipping of the axe is to expensiv. I wonder why he dosn't came up with that much earlier??? After he told me that I was offering that I pay the half of the shipping costs.

Until 21st of November 2017 no axe has arrived and no answer from Max but then he offered a wool cap in different groups on the same day and I was offering that he could send me the cap and keep the axe because the shipping for the had will be less expensiv. He answered he's fine with that.

No had arrived untill the 03rd of January 2018 and I was asking again, what is with my stuff?

On 5th January 2018 he was answering that he shipped the cap on the 4th of January 2018.

Untill now, the 21st of January 2018 no cap has arrived yet and I am kind of used to wait for orders but stuff from China was faster then that and I am really pissed off right now. So since he's offering a lot for to sell here on facebook I thought I will let you know because we are kind of a community world wide and I love that hobby and I respect everyone and a deal is a deal.

So Max Wolf, where is my cap? I am still waiting...
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Comment on Facebook

I shipped it through the post office using standard shipping. I have no control over how long it takes to get things through customs. The lady said it should take about a week. My deepest apologies for the continued delay

Intersting, now Max deleted his profile and his answer to this post. Looks like I lost some money...

Max Wolf Just give John F. Kanaka the tracking number then he can follow his order without bothering you

John, if and when the cap turns up, please let me know and I'll remove this post. For now I'm going to turn off commenting.

Saturday January 20th, 2018 - 8:00 pm

How do ya'll wear your dutch knit hats? ... See MoreSee Less

 

Comment on Facebook

On my head😀

Rakishly.

With distinction.

Their just so tall.

Friday January 19th, 2018 - 9:17 am

I need a quote to serve as a program title. The program centers around a sailors possessions in the late 17th century. Anyone have a quote that might serve this purpose? I'd normally search it out on my own but the park wants a title by the end of the day. Maybe something from Barlow? Thanks in advance folks! Raphael Mission David Fictum Adam Cripps? ... See MoreSee Less

 

Comment on Facebook

PMed you.

I can't check messages. Can you email? [email protected]

Thursday January 18th, 2018 - 8:47 pm

Had this hat since the summer, but finally got a hat band made for it. This is appropriate for 1670-1700, right? ... See MoreSee Less

Had this hat since the summer, but finally got a hat band made for it.  This is appropriate for 1670-1700, right?

 

Comment on Facebook

Like the "Wha chew talk'in bout Willis" look.

It looks very Jesuitical.

The earliest I've seen buckles on hats like that is is 1770's and the buckle is worn in front. In any case, that is not a period correct buckle. 🙁

Well, 'crept the t-shirt:)

You guys are bursting my bubble! I was hoping to use this hat as part of my authentic kit. Would it be better without the hat band? Would a ribbon be better? Or nothing?

Buckled hatbands were not unknown in several periods, although by no means the standard that some sets of illustrations (eg "Pilgrim Fathers" would have you believe) However, a buckle on a hatband is actually fairly pointless, so it should be seen primarily as an item of display, so it is likely that when used they were not plain functional buckles, but ornate ones. Buckle fashions tended to change slowly over time, with sudden jumps where most of the existing styles became extinct and quite different ones took over. One of these jumps occurred (certainly in England) in the last third of the C17th, and another in the C19th. Sadly, most of the supposedly traditional buckles (as opposed to actual historical reproductions) date from this last wave, ie C19th on, and in many cases are actually horse harness buckles. Having said all that, buckles could be very long lasting: I have a number of original buckles which serve on my re-enactment kit from the C13th, C16th and C17th, and I have a modern belt which was converted by my grandfather (maybe during WW2) to clothing use having previously been a bonnet strap for a car, itself almost certainly converted from a draft horse harness.

+ View previous comments

Wednesday January 17th, 2018 - 6:49 pm

Maybe off topic? I have several hats, cocked, unlocked....and I am looking for an economical way to safely store them all to protect them from sunlight and dust...and to really just be able to stack and store them neatly. Hat boxes are very expensive...does anyone have anything they use other than just some basic cardboard boxes? ... See MoreSee Less

 

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Cardboard boxes are acidic—they may be ok in some people’s minds for VERY short-term storage but I never recommend this. I know hat boxes can be expensive but. Are well worth the money to protect your hats! There are some larger hat boxes that, depending on the shape and structure of your hats, you may be able to put more than one hat in the same box. Best of luck—keep looking for bargain prices!

The only thing that will really do damage is moth....avoid that, and leave them in a pile. Doubt if period people sealed their hats in hermetically sealed vacuum bags or whatever. IMO re-enactment kit is not subject to enough real wear, and is overprotected. The original wearers had, on average, far less clothes than modern people, and wore each far more, in worse conditions.

Cake boxes?

I would strongly advise against sealing anything that has been used in plasic boxes, bags, wraps etc. The slightest trace of moisture and you will have a mould-fest on your hands. I have seen more kit damaged or destroyed like this than from neglect.

I periodically store my kit in the freezer. Deal with THAT, moths!

My problem is finding a big enough box that is weather proof and easily carried on train for me barbossa hat!

A museum supply store will have the boxes you are looking for, thoe they arw pricy !!

Go to a quilting shop and ask for heirloom quilt storage boxes and acid free tissue paper that goes with it.

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Albert Roberts shared a post to the group: Authentic Pirate Living History 1690-1730.
Albert Roberts

Wednesday January 17th, 2018 - 5:06 pm

Them carpenters seem to be in the midst of a great discussion! Best not interrupt. ... See MoreSee Less

 

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Rocky Sawyer

Rick Allen shared Queen Anne's Revenge - Blackbeard's post to the group: Authentic Pirate Living History 1690-1730.
Rick Allen

Tuesday January 16th, 2018 - 7:18 am

Where's The Rum?! Blackbeard 300
"Such a day, rum all out. Our company somewhat sober; a damned confusion among us! Rogues a plotting." - Edward "Blackbeard" Teach. One of Blackbeard's 300 year old onion bottles appears out of the sand on the Queen Anne's Revenge - Blackbeard Shipwreck Project. From the Nautilus Productions LLC's stock footage library. www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvaNly3NPNE. For fans of War History Online, Blackbeard Pirate Festival, Beaufort Pirate Invasion, Blackbeard's Pirate Jamboree on Ocracoke Island, Pirates Among Us, Pirates of the Caribbean, Brethren of the Space Coast and the Alaskan Pirate Brethren of the Cold.

#Pirates #NautilusProductions #Blackbeard #Documentary #StockFootage #Shipwreck #Privateer #Archaeology #EdwardThache #copyright #QueenAnnesRevenge #McCrory #FriendsofQAR #NCDNCR #BlackbeardsLaw #NCFilm #Blackbeard300 #Tricentennial #IntellectualProperty #lawsuit #Blogbeard #Kurohige #SlaveShip
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Monday January 15th, 2018 - 2:11 pm

Thx for the add! ... See MoreSee Less

Matty Bottles added 50 photos to the album: Smallswords in Authentic Pirate Living History 1690-1730.
Matty Bottles

Monday January 15th, 2018 - 12:45 pm

Well, we've talked about Gilkerson's research, and we've covered a lot of workmanlike blades. Even the fancier hilts have features blades with definition hack-and-slash capability. And in my mind's eye, the pirate is a clamshell-cutlass wielding bastard. But the fact of the matter is, so far at least one of the sword hilts pulled from the Whydah so far are smallsword hilts, and since that's a bonafide pirate wreck, we should be informed on these kinds of swords. Maybe they are French-style swords; the French were mounting straight hanger blades with these kinds of hilts. Mayce it was considered loot. Or maybe the Clifford group is a little haphazard about releasing their info, and it's hard to know for sure exactly how many kinds of swords they have found. IT'S ONE OF THE GREAT MYSTERIES.


Museum initials and catalog number included, where possible. See museum key below to find the right website. If it doesn't have a number it is probably from an auction site or a website like ethnographic arms and armour.


Museum Key
V&A = Victoria and Albert
RCT = Royal Collections Trust
BM = British Museum
RMG = Royal Museums Greenwich
Philly = Philadelphia Museum of Art
AIC = Art Institute of Chicago
NMS/NMScotland = National Museums Scotland
RA = Royal Armoury
NAM = National Army Museum
The Met = The Metropolitan Museum of Art
Wallace = The Wallace Collection
Winterthur = The Winterthur Collection
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Well, weve talked about Gilkersons research, and weve covered a lot of workmanlike blades. Even the fancier hilts have features blades with definition hack-and-slash capability. And in my minds eye, the pirate is a clamshell-cutlass wielding bastard. But the fact of the matter is, so far at least one of the sword hilts pulled from the Whydah so far are smallsword hilts, and since thats a bonafide pirate wreck, we should be informed on these kinds of swords. Maybe they are French-style swords; the French were mounting straight hanger blades with these kinds of hilts. Mayce it was considered loot. Or maybe the Clifford group is a little haphazard about releasing their info, and its hard to know for sure exactly how many kinds of swords they have found. ITS ONE OF THE GREAT MYSTERIES.


Museum initials and catalog number included, where possible. See museum key below to find the right website. If it doesnt have a number it is probably from an auction site or a website like ethnographic arms and armour.


Museum Key
V&A = Victoria and Albert
RCT = Royal Collections Trust
BM = British Museum
RMG = Royal Museums Greenwich
Philly = Philadelphia Museum of Art
AIC = Art Institute of Chicago
NMS/NMScotland = National Museums Scotland
RA = Royal Armoury
NAM = National Army Museum
The Met = The Metropolitan Museum of Art
Wallace = The Wallace Collection
Winterthur = The Winterthur Collection

 

Comment on Facebook

I wonder what Robert Maynard would say.

Those hilts remind me of the english civil war hangers. I can only surmise they were the daddy of those ones that GAoP came to use. Who knows may be they had them older ones as well.

Monday January 15th, 2018 - 12:30 pm

When did this style come about? ... See MoreSee Less

When did this style come about?

 

Comment on Facebook

It is generally referred to as the 1751 hanger.

What stood out to me is the angled grip. Most repros it is straight.

Its quite similar in ways to the early baskets of the mid 17th century onwards though greater minimalisation on the hilt guard. I would not be surprised if this style appeared during the GAoP as a cavalryman's sword but with straight blades?

Perhaps backdated with a wood grip.

This is later. King George’s war would be a stretch. Don’t do it.

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Matty Bottles added 33 photos to the album: Mortuary Hilt Swords in Authentic Pirate Living History 1690-1730.
Matty Bottles

Sunday January 14th, 2018 - 5:35 pm

Since Paul Chen made a bunch of bangers modeled after this style, we see them in reenactment groups, but this is a sword that, for some reason, I think would be rare onboard ship. But then, two of these images are watermarked NMM Collection, which stands for National Maritime Museum, which is one of the Royal Museums at Greenwich. So take what I say with a grain of salt. But bear in mind that one example from the NMM is still pretty scant support. I would recommend that reenactors who use this should be open to the public that this is over-represented because there is a limited number of reliable entry-level repros from our period available, but you are free to tell me to do all sorts of horrid things with my recommendation.

Museum initials and catalog number included, where possible. See museum key below to find the right website. If it doesn't have a number it is probably from an auction site or a website like ethnographic arms and armour.


Museum Key
V&A = Victoria and Albert
RCT = Royal Collections Trust
BM = British Museum
RMG = Royal Museums Greenwich
Philly = Philadelphia Museum of Art
AIC = Art Institute of Chicago
NMS/NMScotland = National Museums Scotland
RA = Royal Armoury
NAM = National Army Museum
The Met = The Metropolitan Museum of Art
Wallace = The Wallace Collection
... See MoreSee Less

Since Paul Chen made a bunch of bangers modeled after this style, we see them in reenactment groups, but this is a sword that, for some reason, I think would be rare onboard ship. But then, two of these images are watermarked NMM Collection, which stands for National Maritime Museum, which is one of the Royal Museums at Greenwich. So take what I say with a grain of salt. But bear in mind that one example from the NMM is still pretty scant support. I would recommend that reenactors who use this should be open to the public that this is over-represented because there is a limited number of reliable entry-level repros from our period available, but you are free to tell me to do all sorts of horrid things with my recommendation.

Museum initials and catalog number included, where possible. See museum key below to find the right website. If it doesnt have a number it is probably from an auction site or a website like ethnographic arms and armour.


Museum Key
V&A = Victoria and Albert
RCT = Royal Collections Trust
BM = British Museum
RMG = Royal Museums Greenwich
Philly = Philadelphia Museum of Art
AIC = Art Institute of Chicago
NMS/NMScotland = National Museums Scotland
RA = Royal Armoury
NAM = National Army Museum
The Met = The Metropolitan Museum of Art
Wallace = The Wallace Collection

 

Comment on Facebook

It's hard to say how common such swords might've been aboard ship. Certainly there are some isolated examples of individual broadswords and backswords noted in use at sea (Snelgrave wrote that James Griffin, a "forc'd man" aboard Cocklyn's crew, carried a broadsword), but I've also seen a number of mid- to end of the 17th century English man-of-war ordnance inventories that list both "swords" and "hangers" in equal numbers. Although it's very remotely possible that "hanger" was meant as "frog," I doubt this was actually the case, given the common use of hanger for short cutting sword, not to mention the quantities: 15 each of swords and hangers (30 swords total) might be sufficient for a sixth rate of 24 guns and more than 100 crew when added to "hatchets" (12) and "short pikes" (18), but 15 swords total is far too few. (Hanger was typically used in the English navy to refer to what we commonly refer to as a cutlass. The term cutlass was also quite common throughout the 17th century, contrary to some scholarly suggestions otherwise. Both "Swords" and "Cutlases" are listed among the arms aboard William Jackson's 1640s privateering venture to the Caribbean, for example, and in numerous other instances.) At any rate, I've yet to discover through old records what swords versus hangers meant (but "swords" is not likely to have meant smallswords or other thrusting swords). Complicating the issue is that even into the 18th century, often the generic term "swords" alone is used, although the majority were doubtless short cutting swords aka cutlasses, at least in the 18th century.

I think there is little doubt in the C17th that Hangers were indeed used as a term for the leatherwork supporting a sword (for example the Oxford army contracts)...indeed, the fact that equal numbers of swords and hangers were issued is indicative of this, rather than the opposite. It is unlikely that the crew as a whole would have normally carried swords as part of their equipment...they would have got in the way, got lost and indeed be dangerous. Thus the small number of swords and hangers probably represent that small proportion of the crew that would....officers would be expected to have their own, so would not be issued from stores, and ordinary seamen would not be wearing a sword. Even in a boarding action, most crew would be needed to work the ship and guns..at a pinch, there are any number of improvised weapons on ships, and accounts of crew fighting with marlin spikes, capstan bars etc reflect this. Such terms as hanger (in the weapon sense), broadsword and cutlass are likely to refer to basically cutting weapons, whereas swords and tucks are more likely to be thrusting weapons....bearing in mind that outside the world of high fashion and the fencing schools, most practical swords would have been capable of both functions to a greater or lesser extent.

I used only one list as an example, that which I had easiest access to at the time rather than dig through other documents I have variously archived. Other sixth rate lists from the same period give the generic "30 swords" rather than 15 and 15, with similar quantities of other arms as the list I referenced. In other words, "swords" likely refers to a cutting sword other than a hanger. In all naval and army ordnance stores docs I've reviewed from mid-17th century through the first quarter of the eighteenth, "swords" indicates some form of cutting sword rather than a tuck/rapier/smallsword which had little use as a boarding or battlefield weapon. Arms lists do vary a bit, and change a bit over time, but even the smallest of mid- 17th century sixth rates (12 guns) carried no fewer than 30 swords. As for boarders, as well as crew armed to defend against boarders, the number depended on circumstances, although the general recommendation was no more than three quarters of the crew should be assigned as boarders. Half to three quarters was common, and in the case of sixth rates and similarly sized privateers, 60 to 70 boarders was common. In addition to the various officers and assigned "small arms men" or "musketeers," the remainder of boarders were drawn from the gun crews. Additionally, in action, only a very small number of crew were assigned to work "fighting sail."

The assumption that thrusting swords "had little use as a boarding or battlefield weapon" is more of an assumption than an established fact. The same is true of "swords" being automatically cutting weapons. Just to quote one example, General Monck states that troops should be armed with tucks (ie thrusting swords), not swords (which he obviously equates with cutting weapons) . This clearly supports one of your points, while opposing the other. As to numbers of men fighting in a boarding action, your figures support my view, not all men required hand to hand combat weapons under normal circumstances,,,

I'll stick to my forty years research on the subject, including the points I've made above.

This just proves to me that modern enthusiasts are far more obsessed with nomenclature than our ancestors could have imagined. Methinks I hear an echo of distant laughter.

We've had these debates about ECW sword types/use for decades, yes,we have example, yes, we have period names, but matching them up will always be an interpretation

+ View previous comments

Sunday January 14th, 2018 - 2:20 pm

So I'm looking to get a pair of authentic shoes for GAOP. But I need to know a few points to ensure I get an accurate pair. Now, I know they need to be straight lasted and I'm thinking of getting a square toe style as I've seen a few people wearing those (and to me, they're more athestically pleasing)

But were all shoes black in this period or can they be made from brown leather? The company I'm interested in is called SJ's tailoring (they were recommended to me when I was looking for a shirt.)

Anywho, this is the direction I thought I should be going in. Thoughts, comments, please?
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So Im looking to get a pair of authentic shoes for GAOP. But I need to know a few points to ensure I get an accurate pair. Now, I know they need to be straight lasted and Im thinking of getting a square toe style as Ive seen a few people wearing those (and to me, theyre more athestically pleasing)
 
But were all shoes black in this period or can they be made from brown leather? The company Im interested in is called SJs tailoring (they were recommended to me when I was looking for a shirt.)
 
Anywho, this is the direction I thought I should be going in. Thoughts, comments, please?

 

Comment on Facebook

I recall there is a difference in style between GAOP shoes and later 18C ones......Sure someone here will know

these are listed as 17th century lachets.. This is almost what I'm looking for but with a buckle closure.

I'm very pleased with the open latchet shoes I bought from garb the world. They are straight lasted and the uppers are sewn to the souls.

Hand sewn shoes to order. I have two pair from him. They wear well and were comfortable right out of the box. On top of all that, his shoes are affordable. www.facebook.com/simurlanshoes/

The buckles in shoes of this period were not integral parts of the shoe, but detachable. As Steve says, laces were still in use, and are much more practical for "working" shoes: buckles are great for display, but something of a pain in practice, especially the larger ones. laces are cheaper, more adjustable and can hold the shoe on better. Most machine made "repro" shoes suffer from too thin leather, often badly cut, and are modified from modern or later style patterns. As a general rule, seams were not overlapped but butted, things like heel stiffeners wher present were not stitched through, so the stitching was not visible on the outside, and they also did not have doubled areas to reinforce laces etc.

I hearily recommend Sarah Juniper. It's handmade, and worth every penny. Foxblades handmade ones are also good. I've got shoes made by both.

As far as black goes.. most shoes were blacked with polish, often rough side on the outside and so caked with the wax they looked like they were smooth out.

Years ago...I did exactly that to a brown 17C pair to use for early 18C

If you want shoes under £70 then my stock range is the way to go, I researched them, designed them and have them made for me. There are plenty of copies of them around now. If you want to spent over £70 then bespoke is the way to go. I can do them and the only other shoemaker I recommend is Sarah Juniper. My stock shoes are part hand part machine made - up until the mid 19th century there were no machines. Sarah's and my bespoke shoes are completely hand made. You pay your money you take your choice. It also depends on when you want them. My lead time for bespoke shoes is at least three months.

I’m not advocating any specific manufacturer, but I will say that most reenactors I know who spend money on “close enough” eventually spend more money later on “just right.” There’s nothing wrong with starting at the level you can afford. Just be prepared, because this hobby rarely gets cheaper.

You were asking about colours. Not all shoes were black. In fact the rich and famous had white buckle shoes ( I suspect they never walked the streets in them). There were also brown shoes. But looking at pictorial evidence most buckle shoes were black. Laced shoes seem to have had more brown ones. Its difficult to get a true percentage but from the pictures I've seen black seemed more popular in towns, brown more popular in the countryside. As far as existing pairs go in the UK its very difficult to find laced shoes which is most likely because they were worn until they disintegrated. Buckle shoes being worn by the better off (so very well made bespoke) often survive as hidden shoes in walls and up chimneys etc. The less well made ones are rare but they are around and from time to time I get sent pieces of them found in the Thames. The quality is so bad that I sold shoes like that now I'd go bust.

One other thing to look out for is the shape of the hole in the shoe when laced. A "latchet" style shoe should have the latchets quite far back, and angled upwards, so that when laced, they tighten around the small of the ankle. If the latchets are too far forward, as is often the case, and at too low an angle, even when tightened there is a large oval top, and the foot tends to slip, even slipping out, especially if the too thin leather stretches. As time went on, the seams did move forward somewhat, and it is probable that shool practicality was compromised somewhat by that, but that s fashion for you.

Rijksmuseum, printed 1670 to 1724, original probably circa 1670, of a poor French shoe salesman, nice variety of shoes including children's.

They say a shoemakers family is poorly shod...obviously, a second hand shoe seller takes this to the next level...

+ View previous comments

Sunday January 14th, 2018 - 12:09 pm

The marine artist and sailing instructor Peter Rindlisbacher of Katy, Texas, now a member of the "Crew of the Scavenger" re-enactment group, continues his development of his 33-foot cutter "Golden Witch" to late 17th Century-early 18th Century appearance. With the Scavengers and a few others as crew, "Golden Witch" will take part in the 350th anniversary staging of the 1668 Raid on St Augustine, Florida, by a party under Captain Robert Searle, on the March 2-4 weekend. The boat also rows eight oars, and is armed with a bow swivel. ... See MoreSee Less

The marine artist and sailing instructor Peter Rindlisbacher of Katy, Texas, now a member of the Crew of the Scavenger re-enactment group, continues his development of his 33-foot cutter Golden Witch to late 17th Century-early 18th Century appearance. With the Scavengers and a few others as crew, Golden Witch will take part in the 350th anniversary staging of the 1668 Raid on St Augustine, Florida, by a party under Captain Robert Searle, on the March 2-4 weekend. The boat also rows eight oars, and is armed with a bow swivel.

 

Comment on Facebook

Can't wait

Awesome, where can i learn more about her ??

An example of Peter's art (Battle of Hudson Bay, 1697)

This is more what a common pirate ship would have look like, right?

Donald Ridenbaugh shared The Crew of the Scavenger's album to the group: Authentic Pirate Living History 1690-1730.
Donald Ridenbaugh

Saturday January 13th, 2018 - 11:37 am

Photos from this year's Scavenger Crew Careening Encampment. ... See MoreSee Less

Photos from this years Scavenger Crew Careening Encampment.

 

Comment on Facebook

These are amazing!

You guys worked hard for your impressions! Great work. WOW, NO CAVALIER BOOTS ANS MASCARA!

Sharp looking crew you've got there

I'm already thinking about next year

I admire the authenticity you guys seem to put into the smallest details!

This event is on my bucket list. You guys look great and the event seems so unique. I've heard good things from some of the folks I know who went last year.

you fellows look sharp as paint! Great pics!

+ View previous comments

Saturday January 13th, 2018 - 10:09 am

As some of you know, I've been put in charge of historic camping at a new event in Utah (yes I know. Rocky Mountains. No oceans). There's is this great picket fort that will pass very well for an early colonization fort. It's modest in size, well shaded by large trees and bordered on one side by a boating pond and on the other by a small stream.

My biggest hurdle is not the location, but the local, heavily engrained 'fantasy' take on everything. The conventions scene is extremely fantasy heavy, so history is a hard sell.

This brings me to my point. I need to start a rag bin. I need old, hand me down clothing. Anything to bribe people into joining up. Shirts, pants, slops, whatever. Any donation would be appreciated. I can do trades for draughts of done of the Mercury and Watch Dog. I also have some patches from the Mercury and Fort Taylor Pyrate Invasion if you'd like to go that route.

If you'd like to donate things, just drop me a line here or privately.
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As some of you know, Ive been put in charge of historic camping at a new event in Utah (yes I know.  Rocky Mountains.  No oceans).  Theres is this great picket fort that will pass very well for an early colonization fort.  Its modest in size, well shaded by large trees and bordered on one side by a boating pond and on the other by a small stream.  

My biggest hurdle is not the location, but the local, heavily engrained fantasy take on everything.  The conventions scene is extremely fantasy heavy, so  history is a hard sell.

This brings me to my point.  I need to start a rag bin.  I need old, hand me down clothing.  Anything to bribe people into joining up.  Shirts, pants, slops, whatever.  Any donation would be appreciated.  I can do trades for draughts of done of the Mercury and Watch Dog.  I also have some patches from the Mercury and Fort Taylor Pyrate Invasion if youd like to go that route.  

If youd like to donate things, just drop me a line here or privately.

 

Comment on Facebook

William, I will look through my items and get back to you. If nothing else I will make something like a weskit as a donation

How historically accurate are you looking to be at the event?

This post fills me with joy. (And how can I get a winged skull patch?)

Donations of hemp canvas, linen, rope, thread, baskets, buttons, etc. are also appreciated. Anything to create atmosphere and establish a strong historic presence around the fort. We've asked if we can quarter Spanish soldiers in the fort, but we're waiting to hear back on that.

Here are a couple pics taken recently up at the fort. The first pic is up on a hill. Fort is in upper right. The pins and river are East of this spot.

East side of the park looking back across the pond. Fort in background.

Another pic of the historic camping area. This is from a Rendezvous.

The fort entrance.

This could be a great living history event with some assistance! You know I'm all in William...

This is the garden along one side of the fort and directly along the dirt path separating the fort and the historic camping. Camping would be to the upper right in this picture.

This is a detail of the 'primitive shelter', which will likely be used to house pirate prisoners under guard.

When do you need donations? I am lending a bunch of stuff to a film production, but after I get them back I can donate somethings.

The event is the first week of August. When would you have them back?

When is this event??

First weekend of August.

I'll look through my wears, but I'm sure I can send ya buttons, and somethings 🙂 Dibs on a Mercury draft 😀

Some local fellows are camping at the Fort this weekend in a snow storm. I love the moxie of some re-enactors.

Bathrooms are heated if it gets too cold! Lol! I hope they have a key!

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Thursday January 4th, 2018 - 9:42 pm

Would this be too flashy for a regular sailor? This is one of the latest offerings from loyalist arms. ... See MoreSee Less

Would this be too flashy for a regular sailor? This is one of the latest offerings from loyalist arms.

 

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Define 'regular sailor'...

leave it a couple of days near the ocean, and it will get the proper patina in no time 😉

Not an officer.

In that case, a regular sailor would not have such a weapon, as he would: 1 not be able to afford it. 2 Would not be allowed to have a 'personal sword' on a HM ship. A regular sailor would be issued a 'ships sword/cutlass' at the time of a battle, which would be returned to the armoury or the master of arms after said battle. Said sword would usually be of good quality, and simple, utilitarian design.

And a pirate?

As for a pirate, that's another situation. Yes, if he was able, he could have such a weapon. I would let it age to a nice patina and not keep it so bright.

max, i waiting nearly a half year for my order from you which is paid. Where is my cap??? You don't answer so I have to do it the public way, sorry!

It's been sent

get it, an call yourself the captain!

I just got off the phone with Loyalist Arms...these are not yet in stock. It will be about 3 weeks before he gets them in.

Its by far my favorite.

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Thursday October 27th, 2016 - 4:50 pm

Thought I would post a Thank You n here to Benerson Little. In his new book, "The Golden Age of Piracy: The Truth Behind Pirate Myths" he mentions me in one of his footnotes (chapter 1, n. 72) because of a discussion we had on this very group. (I pre-ordered this work and got it real recently).

What I've read of the book so far, I am finding it to be a great work to replace an older publication on my list of pirate books I have on my website. Specifically, after I am done reading Little's book, I will probably replace Cordingly's "Under the Black Flag" book with Little's book. Little's work is more up to date and explores in more depth the part of Cordingly's book I liked in the first place - the first chapter of Cordingly explored myths like Little, but now Little has a whole back that does that. So far, I have found so many good things, and only one or two minor issues that aren't even worth discussing in this post. Pending something drastic happens (which I don't think it will), I recommend the book highly and you'll see more from me regarding it in the future.

Link to the book: www.amazon.com/Golden-Age-Piracy-Behind-Pirate/dp/1510713026
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Many thanks, David. Criticisms and corrections are always welcome, I work them into a pdf and post online. (In fact, I need to update the errata and extensive supplementary notes for Sea Rover's Practice and Buccaneer's Realm, it's been a couple of years, I have a pretty long list of additions for both.) The myths book was written for a general audience even while remaining scholarly in its research, and in it I hoped to balance historical analysis and description with narrative history, always a delicate process, something akin to threading a couple of needles with a single thread at the same time. Although there's and intro to the book that briefly discusses the dress and appearance of the pirate, and tries to debunk some associated myths and misconceptions, if you want detailed info on the subject, see David and his website. 🙂

I think you guessed what my issues would be (material culture stuff). In your prologue, I had minor issues with the references to hair queues, earrings, and cigars. I won't go into detail now, since I haven't finished reading the whole book. But, to everyone else, it should be noted, there is a ton of ground covered in this book, there is no way a book will be 100% perfect (someone will always come along and point out stuff you missed - I totally expect it to happen with my book eventually, someone will come out of the woodwork to correct me).

All corrections and suggestions will be noted. 🙂 Trying to cover 75 years of sea roving, including three or four distinct generations with multiple nationalities and ethnicities was a challenge.

Exactly, trying to spin a narrative out of discussion of material culture stuff has to be one of the most difficult things in history writing, at least that was my experience. With discussing an event, or the life of a person/group, the narrative can naturally go along with a timeline. Did not find the same thing with material culture studies. It sometimes felt like trying to weave a piece of cloth without a loom, always being concerned if I missed one thread while working down the cloth.

Looking forward to ordering it!

I had intended to send you the clothing/appearance intro for review, and if in time, the flag chapter as well, but I was overcome by events, or at least highly distracted by events this spring, specifically a new house and (after a bit more than two decades) a new baby.

It happens. I mean, look at my work, I would have loved to have gone to the National Archives while I was still in grad school for my thesis, but couldn't, so I'm trying to arrange it now so I have the highest quality of publication I can manage when I take it to try and have it published.

Currently reading The Buccaneers of America. The Sea Rover's Practice I next on my list. I just put The Golden Age of Piracy: The Truth Behind Pirate Myths in my Amazon wish list!

Specifically to your points about tattooing, I'd put forth the following - tattoohistorian.com/2014/04/05/the-cook-myth-common-tattoo-history-debunked/ I will be ordering a copy myself as soon as I get back to the US!

Yep, I encountered that problem myself. But, when I was looking to address this in my thesis (which I did, since a broader definition of "dress" for people means adornment of skin and alteration of hair) I found others had addressed this and I used period newspapers to demonstrate a couple examples of period sailors wearing what we call tattoos, though it was nowhere as prevalent as any maritime culture stereotype. As far as I deduced, there was no cultural connection between maritime service and tattooing as of the GAOP.

This scurvy knave of the foc'sle will have to wait for the paperback. Oh, and first I'll need to learn to read.

I'll be interested to read the treatment of flags.

He references your book a lot Ed

Cool, for some reason I assumed Benerson's book was written before mine was published.

I don't know, I just went through endnotes and remember seeing your flag book come up several times

Ed, I got a copy of yours during the editing of mine by the publisher.

David, back to cigars for a moment: the reference is a supposition based on its high likelihood. I should have cited it, but I was trying to minimize "scary" citations in the intro, although I went to add a bunch of long notes anyway. Labat, published early 18th century and writing of the late 17th and early 18th century Caribbean and adjacent regions, notes that the Spaniards and Portuguese there, along with many French and English, and nearly all Africans, and all Caribs (Kalinago), smoked cigars, which he refers to as cigales (crickets, actually) rather than cigaros--cigales was close enough, I guess. Hans Sloane describes cigars too, although not by name, in his early 18th century work based on his 1687 experience in the Islands. It's hard to tell exactly who he means to say smoked them, although it seems that he meant "many" people. The earliest sea roving reference I've seen to them is in the papers from the privateering voyage of the Revenge out of Newport (published in Jameson) for a Caribbean cruise, there's a list of cargo taken from the Willem prize, a Dutch merchantmen whose route was Curacao to Amsterdam but who had been captured by a Spanish privateer. "1 Bag of Segars" is noted as being in a chest with personal effects, but I can't tell whether it belonged to one of the Dutch crew or to one of the Spanish prize crew from the Havana privateer that had captured her prior to the Revenge taking her.

Or, cicada, not cricket--I've learned to check my obscure French vocabulary rather than make assumptions, although it's often soon after the fact. 🙂

For what it's worth--for cigar aficionados--Labat describes cigars as being roughly 6 and 1/2 to 7 and 1/2 inches long, and from slightly less to slightly more than 1/2 inch in diameter (6 to 7 pouces long, 5 to 6 lignes in diameter).

That is what threw me and put up a red flag for me. "Where is the endnote?" Any specifics on the editions of your sources and page numbers would be appreciated (are you going to include that in that thing you'll put on your website for corrections to your work?). Also, from my perspective, and to an extent the perspective here at APLH, we didn't know terribly much about cigars for a maritime context. Our last discussion was 3 years ago. At that point in time, it seemed doubtful that there would have been notable smoking of cigars because we weren't finding much. But now you've provided us with some new documents and even some alternate names for these things, which is good. Definitely could have used you around here all those years ago when we talked about it before: www.facebook.com/groups/455778251185874/permalink/503110956452603/ At some point I will have to reevaluate all the evidence together and come to some new conclusions on this. I still have a couple significant issues - the dangers of smoking an open cigar on a ship and to put this evidence. With pipes, there were all these concerns about accidents onboard because of them. At least pipes can have pipe caps. Cigars don't have that. Then based on what evidence there is, what does it say in regard to how common these things would be for sailors and pirates to have? And, even if they did have them, how often would what kind of sailor/pirate smoke them? I vaguely remember from the last round of research did on this 3 years ago that there are some cultural factors attached to this, as in the English were accustomed to pipe smoking and didn't necessarily embrace cigars. There are still a lot of variables to sort out. Without seeing the references on hand, I still get the impression that cigar smoking among mariners and pirates at sea was still marginal compared to pipe smoking. I have yet to come to the conclusion that cigar smoking among mariners/pirates at sea was commonplace in the GAOP. Not putting context to all this just opens up the door for people to go "okay, all pirates smoked cigars" situations.

More later, but I agree--smoking a cigar aboard ship is more dangerous than a pipe, although cigar ash in my experience doesn't typically carry embers with it, although it wouldn't take much aboard ship. It's also possible that cigars found in a cargo might be cut up and used for pipe tobacco. I also agree, pipes appear to have been the way to go for most at sea. Cigars, until the very late18th/early 19th century seem to have been smoked mostly in the Caribbean and adjacent areas (I'm not sure about Peru). In the North American colonies, it was pipes all the way until then.

I'll get the references posted this weekend, and will eventually get them into the pdf, with your comments as well. By the way, separate issue, how would you describe a large watch coat circa 1707 (from Ward's Wooden World)? I think he described it as a "whapping big" watch coat, but I'll have to check. Also, ran across a reference you might or might not have, in Narborough's voyage (1694) he notes a seaman's broadcloth coat as costing 16 shillings.

'Wapping large watch coat' I believe, Wapping being a region of London much frequented by seamen.

I figured Whapping might be Wapping and hopefully not slang for "whopping," but when I checked the OED it gives Ward's quote as the second instance of historical use of whopping (as in "large"). Maybe they missed the Wapping association? I didn't see an etymology of "whopping," except apparently from "whop" and "whopper," which have non nautical etymologies related to beating &c. The earliest usage of whopping cited is I think 1625, non nautical. By the way, there's a Wapping in Bristol too, I ran across it while doing some research for the sequel to Fortune's Whelp.

Before commenting on the queues thing, since there were more sources for the cigar thing than quoted in the book, did you have any other sources for that beyond that one late 18th-century source you quoted in your text?

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